Perezida Kagame yavuze kuri Coup d'Etat mu Rwanda, kwiyamamariza indi manda muri 2024, ibibazo byo mu karere...

Perezida Paul Kagame aherutse kugirana ikiganiro n’ikinyamakuru Jeunafrique, agaruka ku ngingo zitandukanye zirimo ibivugwa ku Rwanda, ku karere na Afurika ndetse no ku buzima bwe bwite.

 

Muri icyo kiganiro cyabaye tariki 20 Mutarama i Kigali, Perezida Kagame yasubije ibibazo birimo iby’umubano w’u Rwanda na Uganda, u Rwanda n’u Burundi, Coup d’Etat zimaze iminsi muri Afurika n’ibindi.

 

Yavuze ku matora ya Perezida ateganyijwe mu 2024 mu Rwanda, ubutabera n’ibindi.

 

Iki kiganiro cyashyizwe mu Kinyarwanda.

 

Mwagize uruhare rukomeye mu itegurwa ry’inama izahuza Umuryango wa Afurika Yunze Ubumwe n’Umuryango w’Ubumwe bw’u Burayi iteganyijwe tariki 17 na 18 Gashyantare, hitezwemo iki?

 

Kuri ubu hari inama zimwe na zimwe zabaye nk’umuhango kuri bamwe. Bakaza byo kwitabira gusa kurusha ikizava muri iyo nama. Iyi nama yo rero tuyitezeho umusaruro ufatika. Mfite icyizere. Umuryango wa Afurika Yunze Ubumwe urabizi, ndatekereza ko ari ngombwa gukora ibintu mu buryo butandukanye n’ubusanzwe.

 

Ku ruhande rwa EU naho ni uko. Turashimira uruhare rwa Perezida Emmanuel Macron, Perezida w’akanama ka EU, Charles Michel na Perezida wa Komisiyo ya EU Ursula von der Leyen. Hamwe n’abandi banyaburayi, bariteguye kugira ngo iyi nama izazane impinduka nziza mu mubano usanzwe hagati ya Afurika n’u Burayi.

 

Iyi migabane yombi isangiye amateka akomeye. Uburyo bwiza bwo kujya mbere ni ukureba iby’uyu munsi n’ahazaza n’umubano wubakiye ku bwubahane. U Burayi bushobora kuba umufatanyabikorwa w’ingenzi wa Afurika, gutyo gutyo ariko ni ngombwa ko bikorwa mu buryo budasanzwe.

 

Mu bizaganirwaho hagaragaramo ibijyanye n’imiyoborere n’umutekano, mubibona gute?

 

Ni ingenzi cyane. Iyo imiyoborere imeze neza, biroroha kugenzura ibibazo by’umutekano. N’iyo bigeze ku mutekano muke, bihita bigira ingaruka no ku miyoborere. Ibyo bibazo byombi tugomba kubikemurira icyarimwe. Turabibona hirya no hino muri Afurika no ku Isi, ko iyo ibyo bibazo byirundanyije ari bwo hinjirira imitwe y’abahezanguni yaba ishingiye ku idini cyangwa ku bwoko.

 

Urugero nka RDC, imaze imyaka myinshi yibasiwe n’umutekano muke. Ingabo za Loni zishinzwe kugarura amahoro zihamaze imyaka isaga 20, miliyari zisaga 35 z’amadolari zimaze gukoreshwa. Ariko se byatanze uwuhe musaruro? Ntabwo twakomeza gutakaza amafaranga tudatekereza ku musaruro.

 

Yaba Loni cyangwa indi miryango mpuzaturere, hakwiriye kujyaho uburyo bwo kugenzura ibikorwa nk’ibyo. Bamwe muri twe bazabigarukaho muri iyo nama.

 

Tugarutse ku nkingo, benshi muri bagenzi bawe b’Abanyafurika bamaganye ukwikubira kw’inkingo gukorwa n’ibihugu bikize, namwe niko mubibona?

 

Buri wese afite uburenganzira bwo gukoresha imvugo yumva ikwiriye. Kuri njye, mpitamo kuvuga ko hariho ‘ubusumbane mu by’inkingo’. Ntabwo inkingo zisaranganywa mu buryo bungana.

 

Mu gihe mu bihugu bimwe na bimwe hari ububiko buhagije bushobora gutuma bakingira abaturage bose, hari ibindi bitabufite. Hashize igihe ntacyo babona. Uburyo bwo gukemura icyo kibazo, ni uguha ibyo bihugu uburyo bwo kwikorera izo nkingo.

 

Hari igenzura ryakozwe vuba aha rikorwa n’ikigo gishinzwe ubuvuzi cya AU, Africa CDC, ryerekanye ko 43 % by’ababajijwe batekereza ko bari kugeragerezwaho inkingo n’Abanyaburayi. Byagenda gute ngo uwo mubare munini w’Abanyafurika batumva ibyo kwikingiza ugabanuke?

 

Icyo ni ikibazo dusanga mu bice bitandukanye by’Isi harimo na Afurika ndetse no mu Rwanda kirahari, nubwo ari umubare muto. Icyakora ikibazo gikomeye gihari si abanga kwikingiza ahubwo ni uburyo bwo kubona inkingo.

 

Duhanganye n’icyorezo twatangiye tudafitiye igisubizo. Ku bw’amahirwe haje kuboneka urukingo. Ntabwo rukemura byose ariko rurafasha mu guhangana n’icyorezo. Hazahoraho abantu batemera ibisubizo by’inzobere muri siyansi.

 

Mu bwubahane bw’imyemerere ya buri muntu, dushobora kubiganiraho tukumvikana ko uburyo bumwe buzadufasha kuva muri iki kibazo, ari urukingo.

 

Imyaka itatu irashize muyoboye Umuryango wa Afurika Yunze Ubumwe, ese mwishimiye ishyirwa mu bikorwa ry’amavugurura mwagizemo uruhare?

 

Hari ibintu bikomeye tumaze kugeraho. Igitekerezo cy’uko buri gihugu gitanga umusanzu hashingiwe ku bukungu bwacyo ku ngengo y’imari ya AU, byatumye hashyirwaho ikigega cy’amahoro kimaze kugeramo hafi miliyoni 200 z’amadolari.

 

Ibyo bizadufasha kuba twashakisha andi mikoro ariko mbere na mbere twagombaga kubanza kwishakamo ubushobozi mbere yo kujya gushakisha ahandi.

 

Twabashije kugabanya umubare wa za komisiyo n’imyanya imwe n’imwe mu muryango, dutangiza Isoko rusange rya Afurika kandi ibihugu biri kuryinjiramo ku bwinshi kuko byumva akamaro karyo.

 

Hari ibihugu bimwe bya Afurika byagaragaje kutishimira ko Israel iba igihugu cy’indorerezi muri AU, mubitekerezaho iki?

 

Buri gihugu gifite uburenganzira bwo kugira icyo kibivugaho. Hari ibihugu bidafite ikibazo kuri uko kuba indorerezi kwa Israel, ibindi ntibibishyigikiye.

 

Njye uko mbibona, umwanzuro wafashwe na Perezida wa Komisiyo ya AU, Moussa Faki, wari wo ukurikije ibyo amabwiriza avuga. Icya kabiri, Israel ifitanye umubano n’ibihugu 46 bya Afurika ku buryo kuyiha kuba indorerezi nta kibazo biteje.

 

Hanyuma, uwo mwanya wo kuba indorerezi, uzatuma habasha kubaho ibiganiro. Ntabwo bivuze ko ibibazo byazamuwe na bimwe mu bihugu bidahari ariko bizabasha kuganirwano n’impande zose bireba.

 

Umwaka wa 2021 waranzwe n’ihirikwa ry’ubutegetsi nko muri Mali, Guinée na Sudani ndetse hari n’intambara muri Ethiopie. Inshuro nyinshi, AU yagiye iruca ikarumira….

 

Nko muri Ethiopie, byarashobokaga ko ariya makimbirane akumirwa ariko amazi yari yarenze inkombe. Turifuza Ethiopie yunze ubumwe. Twizeye ko ibiganiro bya ngombwa bizagera igihe bikagerwaho.

 

Ku kijyanye n’ihirikwa ry’ubutegetsi, ntekereza ko biriya biba byatangiye mbere kuko nko muri biriya bihugu, hari ibibazo bimaze igihe bidakemurwa. Nko muri Sudani, hari hari ibibazo ku bwa Omar al Bashir, birakomeza na nyuma y’inzibacyuho.

 

Perezida Kagame yavuze ko imiyoborere y'ibihugu bimwe na bimwe ariyo itiza umurindi umutekano muke n'ihirikwa ry'ubutegetsi

Ibibazo nka biriya biba bishoboka kwisubiramo uruhande rwose Umuryango wa Afurika Yunze Ubumwe yaba ihagazemo kuko ntabwo ariyo iyobora ibyo bihugu.

 

Hari aho AU n’indi miryango mpuzamahanga yagira uruhare mu gufasha ariko biza nyuma y’uko ibihugu ubwabyo byishatsemo ibisubizo. Ubushobozi buke bw’Umuryango wa Afurika Yunze Ubumwe nabwo ni izindi ntege nke, ntabwo twabihakana.

 

Mubona mute igaruka ry’abasirikare mu ruhando rwa politiki? Si ugusubira inyuma kwa demokarasi?

 

Hari aho ahubwo ari ugusubira inyuma kw’imiyoborere. Ntabwo buri gihe ari ikosa ry’abasirikare, n’abasivile babifitemo uruhare.Ubundi inshingano z’abasirikare si ugukora kuriya ariko ntabwo twakwirengagiza ko abasivile nabo bajya bakora amakosa.

 

Niba se hariho Guverinoma y’abasivile ariko ibintu bikadogera, abantu bagapfa ibibazo bikarushaho kwiyongera, hanyuma abayobozi bakifashisha abasirikare mu kwiba amatora, ni nde wanengwa mu gihe igisirikare gihiritse iyo Guverinoma? Ntabwo numva ko twanenga gusa abasirikare hanyuma tukareka abasivile babifahisha ngo bagume ku butegetsi.

 

Ntekereza ko ugendeye kuri ubwo busesenguzi, hari abavuga ko hari uguhirika ubutegetsi kuba gukenewe n’ukuba kudakenewe.

 

Hanyuma rero, nubwo igisirikare cyabona ibisobanuro ku mpamvu cyahiritse ubutegetsi mu minsi ya mbere n’abasivile bakabyishimira, haba hakiri ikibazo: Ese ba basirikare bazabasha gushyiraho inzibacyuho izakemura ibibazo byatumye bahirika ubutegetsi? Nibyo dutegereje kureba muri Guinée no muri Mali.

 

Mutekereza ko guhirika ubutegetsi bidashoboka mu Rwanda?

 

Ntabwo mbizi, ariko reka mbisobanure mu bundi buryo. Mbere na mbere abanyarwanda nibo bavuga uko babitekereza, babishingiye kuho twavuye, ibyo twakoze n’ibyo turi gukora.

 

Ikindi, ntabwo mbona ikintu cyatuma haba abasirikare cyangwa abasirikare barakara kugeza aho haba ihirikwa ry’ubutegetsi. Uburyo bwacu bw’imiyoborere mu mboni zanjye, ni ukwita ku bibazo by’abaturage. Ntabwo mbona ibintu nshobora gukora cyangwa se inzego zishobora gukora byatuma ibintu bigera aho ngaho.

 

Kuba sosiyete y’Abarusiya Wagner iri muri Centrafrique na Mozambique aho ingabo z’u Rwanda ziri ndetse no muri Mali, ni ikibazo gihangayikishije cyane u Bufaransa n’u Burayi. Bimaze iminsi bihanganishije u Bufaransa na Mali. Ese namwe ntabwo mushyigikiye ko abo bantu baza muri Afurika, cyangwa ni uburenganzira bw’ibyo bihugu?

 

Ibihugu bya Afurika nibyo bigomba guhitamo ikibibereye hashingiwe ku mahame mpuzamahanga twese tugenderaho.

 

Numva ko hakwiriye kubaho uburyo biriya bihugu, u Bufaransa n’u Burusiya byaganira bigakemura ikibazo. Ntabwo numva uburyo u Rwanda rwabyinjiramo.

 

Ku ruhande rwacu, duhitamo kuguma hanze y’ibibazo tudafite icyo twabikoraho. Guverinoma ya Mali ikwiriye kuganira na AU ndetse na EU ku kibazo cya Wagner muri icyo gihugu.

 

Ingabo za Uganda ziri muri RDC ahari imitwe ishaka guhungabanya umutekano w’u Rwanda, byaba bibateye impungenge?

 

Umutwe w’iterabwoba wa ADF ni ikibazo gikomeye, kitareba Uganda gusa. Ni ikibazo gikora kuri RDC natwe bikatugeraho ndetse n’akarere.

 

Muri ADF, harimo Abanya-Uganda, abanye-Congo, Abanyarwanda, Abarundi, Abanya-Kenya n’abanya-Tanzania. Vuba aha, mu Rwanda twataye muri yombi abari muri uwo mutwe.

 

Ntabwo ari abantu bari bafitanye isano neza na ADF ariko hari aho bahuriye. Twaje kumenya ko bari barahawe inyigisho hifashishijwe amashusho bikozwe n’umuntu uri muri RDC n’Umunya-Uganda.

 

Twamenye ko bashakaga kugaba ibitero ku Rwanda bihimura ku bikorwa turimo muri Mozambique mu ntara ya Cabo Delgado. Ibyo ni ibigaragaza ko ikibazo kireba akarere kose. Mu kugikemura hakenewe ubufatanye bw’akarere.

 

Perezida Félix Tshisekedi yaba yarabamenyesheje mbere y’uko izo ngabo zijyayo?

 

Nta n’umwe twaganiriye yaba RDC cyangwa Uganda. Ntiharashira ukwezi tubonye ibisobanuro.

 

Mbere y’uko izo ngabo zoherezwa, twari mu biganiro na Guverinoma ya Congo dusanganywe imikoranire myiza kandi dufatanyije gushakira igisubizo ku bibazo duterwa n’imitwe yitwaje intwaro iri mu Burasirazuba bwa Congo.

 

[…] ibikorwa byo kurwanya ADF bikozwe mu buryo butari bwo, bishobora gukongeza izindi mvururu. Hakenewe ibiganiro n’ubufatanye.

 

Mu ntangiriro z’Ugushyingo 2021, muri Kivu y’Amajyaruguru ingabo za Congo zavuze ko zigabwaho ibitero n’abahoze muri M23 bari mu Rwanda. Ese kuba abo bahoze ari inyeshyamba bari ku butaka bwanyu ntabwo byongera umutekano muke?

 

Ubwo M23 yasenyukaga, bamwe mu bari bayigize baje mu Rwanda, abandi bajya muri Uganda mu gihe hari n’abagumye muri Congo.

 

Ku baje mu Rwanda, twaganiriye kenshi na Guverinoma ya Joseph Kabila, nyuma dukomeza n’iya Félix Tshisekedi ku buryo bataha. Twamenyesheje bagenzi bacu ko abo bantu bambuwe intwaro, tukabashyira mu nkambi kandi ko tugenzura ibikorwa byabo. Ni ikibazo kimaze igihe. Twasabye Abanye-Congo kubajyana, aho babashyira ni ibyabo.

 

Abanya-Uganda nabo basabye nk’ibyo kuko hariyo benshi bahoze muri M23. Bamwe bari mu nkambi ariko hari itsinda riyobowe na Sultani Makenga riri ku mupaka uhuza RDC, u Rwanda na Uganda ku ruhande rwa Uganda. Bahamaze imyaka ibiri kandi bakomeje kugaba ibitero kuri RDC.

 

Twaganiriye n’abayobozi ba Congo kandi hari itsinda rishinzwe ubugenzuzi ryageze aho baherereye. Kuvuga ko bafite aho bahuriye n’u Rwanda, ntabwo ari byo.

 

Kugeza ubu RDC niyo igomba gufata umwanzuro w’uko izakemura icyo kibazo. Bamwe mu nshuti z’izo nyeshyamba bari muri Guverinoma i Kinshasa, abandi baba muri RDC. Na Guverinoma ya Congo irabizi ko abagize M23 bagomba kuba bari iwabo.

 

Umuhungu wa Perezida Museveni, Lt Gen Kainerugaba aherutse kuburira abatekereza kukurwanya. Mwakiriye intumwa yihariye iturutse muri Uganda. Byaba ari intangiriro y’ubwiyunge hagati y’u Rwanda na Uganda?

 

Buri mushoramari aba akwiriye kugenzura akamenya neza umusaruro uva mu byo yashoye. Yego, turi mu biganiro ariko ntegereje kureba ko ari ibyo twashoramo. Kuri ubu, nta musaruro ndabona kandi intumwa nakira ndabizibwira.

 

Hari abishimira amafoto, bakumva byarangiye. Njye siko meze. Yego nishimiye ibyatangajwe n’umuhungu wa Perezida Museveni ariko nizeye ko bizarenga hariya hakavamo ibisubizo bya nyabyo.

 

Nubwo hari ukwiyunga, ntabwo murahura na mugenzi wanyu w’u Burundi, Evariste Ndayishimiye. Ikibazo ni ikihe?

 

Ku ruhande rwanjye nta kibazo. Nta kibazo kiri hagati yacu. Abashinzwe umutekano ku mpande zombi na ba Minisitiri bashinzwe ububanyi n’amahanga barahuye.

 

Minisitiri w’Intebe wacu yitabiriye umuhango wo kwizihiza ubwigenge bw’u Burundi. Tuzahura mu gihe cya nyacyo.

 

Urubanza rwa Félicien Kabuga ukekwaho ibyaha bya Jenoside mu minsi mike ruzatangira i La Haye. Mutekereza ko ibihugu byafashije uwo mugabo kwihisha imyaka isaga 25 nabyo bikwiriye kubiryozwa?

 

Ntabwo icyo kibazo kimpangayikishije. Ni ikibazo kimaze igihe kinini. Kuba gusa Kabuga ari mu maboko y’ubutabera birahagije. Hari benshi babigizemo uruhare ariko ni ukureka ubutabera bugakora akazi kabwo uko bikwiriye.

 

Mwaba maravanyeyo amaso ku birego bireba Agathe Habyarimana mukurikije umubano mwiza mufitanye n’u Bufaransa?

 

Ntabwo nigeze nkurayo amaso. Ubutabera bugomba gukomeza gukora ibyabwo kuri iyo dosiye mu gihe tuvugurura umubano wacu n’u Bufaransa. Ntabwo ntekereza ko kimwe kigomba kugira ingaruka ku kindi n'ubwo byuzuzanya.

 

Hari Abanyarwanda umunani barimo abahamijwe ibyaha bya Jenoside bakiriwe muri Niger mu minsi ishize biteza ibibazo. Muhagaze he kuri iyo dosiye?

 

Ikinyoma cya mbere muri ibyo byose, ni ukuvuga ko u Rwanda rwari rubizi ko abo bantu bagiye kujyanwa muri Niger. Nta n’umwe wari wabitumenyesheje. Twabimenye bamaze kugera i Niamey. None se niba byari ibintu bisanzwe, kuki babihishe?

 

Ikibazo cya kabiri, nta buryo bwashyizweho ku buryo abo bantu batakwishora mu bibazo nk’ibyo bakoze mu myaka yatambutse. Twagiye tubona ko bagenda bagatangira gukorana n’abajenosideri bahahuriye ubundi bakajya mu bihuha bigamije guhindanya u Rwanda. None se ibyo ni ibintu bisanzwe? Njye siko mbibona ariko niyo si tugomba kubamo.

 

Urubanza rwa Paul Rusesabagina wakatiwe igifungo cy’imyaka 25 umwaka ushize, rwaranenzwe mu Burayi na Amerika, bavuga ko rutaciye mu mucyo. Mubona kurunenga byaratewe n’iki?

 

Ni ukubanza kwibaza impamvu ibyo bihugu byivanze muri icyo kibazo. Ibyo uriya mugabo yakoze ntabwo mu Rwanda byemewe ndetse no muri ibyo bihugu bimuvugira.

 

Muri ibyo bihugu byitwa ko byateye imbere muri ‘demokarasi’, abakoze ibyaha nka biriya bahanwa bihanukiriye, bakicwa cyangwa bakamanikwa, akenshi nta n’urubanza rubayeho.

 

Ibyo nibyo bihugu bivugira Rusesabagina kuri ubu. Nta gitutu uko cyaba kingana gute kizagira icyo gihindura.

 

Urubanza rwe rwabaye mu ruhame, nta mabanga. Byashoboka ko abatunenga batabizi cyangwa se bahisemo kubyirengagiza, cyangwa se wenda iyo bigeze ku bibazo by’ahandi bahindura imvugo.

 

Nta nubwo wenda banenga uburyo urubanza rwagenze, icyo bashaka ni uko Rusesabagina afungurwa yaba ahamwa n’ibyaha cyangwa bitamuhama.

 

Amatora ataha ya Perezida azaba mu 2024, mujya mubitekerezaho?

 

Ni inshingano. Niba nzaba nyarimo cyangwa ntarimo, ni kimwe mu bigize akazi kanjye. Si ukubitekerezaho uyu munsi gusa ahubwo n’ejo. Ndifuza ko mu 2024 Abanyarwanda bazabasha gukora amahitamo yabo batuje.

 

Muziyamamaza?

 

Byashoboka ariko sindabimenya. Gusa Itegeko Nshinga rirabinyemerera.

 

Abakunenga bavuga ko uri umunyagitugu, ibi bintu ntimubirambiwe?

 

Nk’abandi bose, hari igice cyanjye ntashobora guhindura, hari ikindi gice gukorana bishoboka. Ntabwo byashoboka ko mpindura uturemangingo twanjye. Wasanga aribyo bituma hari abambona nk’umunyagitugu, simbizi. Icyakora, ndi umuntu uhora witeguye gukorana n’abandi.

 

Nkiri umusore, nari umuntu utihangana. Uko imyaka yagiye ishira, naje gusanga bisaba akanya kugira ngo ugere ku ntego zawe. Nize gucisha make, gukora icyangombwa mu gihe cyacyo no kwitonda mu gihe ari ngombwa.

 

None se muzi igihugu aho Perezida, abaminisitiri, abayobozi b’ibigo batagira ababanenga? Niba hari aho biri, mwahambwira ndashaka kuhasura. Nziko kunenga bibaho kandi nanjye ndi umwe mu banengwa, icyakora nzi ko atari njye njyenyine unengwa.

Source: Igihe